agonyaunt | Ask a Manager: Update: "How much should we compromise for a dog phobic coworker in a dog office?"

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Ask a Manager: Update: "How much should we compromise for a dog phobic coworker in a dog office?"

[brief background: company had already hired Jane. Company moved to dog-friendly building and thus announced to employees that dogs could come in. Jane has a dog phobia.]

Initially there were a few conversations about what we needed to do re people bringing dogs in – an email went around asking anybody bringing a dog in to put it in the office calendar so others could check in advance but that didn’t really happen. In practice, at least three colleagues other than Lucille have started bringing their dogs in regularly (much more frequently than Lucille does actually), as have a couple of other workers on our floor from other businesses.

The other colleagues are less conscientious than Lucille was about having dogs in the main office space, so they’re regularly wandering around under desks etc. Jane just doesn’t come in very much – hard to gauge how much of that is dog-related because at this tie of year her work does typically require her to travel a lot – and sits on another if she’s in on the same day as a dog.

Basically, dog has been allowed to trump human in this situation – I don’t think Jane’s being professionally disadvantaged as a result (her team and boss are based in another city anyway so being in the office doesn’t help her much there) but it does seem a bit unfair that she’s been driven out. In sort of good news, the co-working space owners have recently gone into administration so we will need to move office again soon – if we move somewhere that isn’t dog friendly the situation might end up resolving itself.
Thanks for the advice – I think that in this particular case the fact that Jane could work from home as much as she wanted and didn’t want to make a fuss means that it didn’t escalate to the point where a human or dog decision needed to be made, but it’s good to know that I’m not alone in thinking human is the right answer if it comes to it!

(Also, remember the haunted hotel letter? There's an update to that one in the same post.

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Well, no. A decision was made. The dogs were allowed to come in, and Jane was tacitly asked to "compromise" by working from home. If that's the decision you want to make, make it, but don't pretend that you didn't make one.

I will never not be angry at every time I see a version of this question, and there are always otherwise perfectly sensible people (on ask a manager, on Captain awkward, etc.) who are all in favor of saying that the dogs in the dog friendly office should win.

I am incredibly allergic to some dog hair. I can't breathe in offices where dogs regularly are present. With the obvious caveat that there are exceptions for service animals, and the conflicting needs around service animals versus other health issues are quite genuine (although people who have the help of service animals are usually much more cognizant of taking care of the problems), dogs do not belong in shared workspaces.

I have walked away from job offers because it wasn't until after I got the offer that they were excitedly telling me that one of the benefits was a dog friendly office.

I just never get over this expectation that some (some) dog owners have that they should be able to take their pets somewhere that isn't their home, maybe a relative's home (although even that strikes me as forward), or a park. There is literally no other animal that people expect to be able to do this with. I could see it as an occasional thing (last-minute emergency stop at work on one's day off, because I don't expect people to leave dogs in cars), but when I read things about people bringing dogs to work or to a friend's house/bbq/whatever, I just kind of blink.

(Obviously, this does not apply to service dogs. I've had those in my classrooms a couple of times, and it's never been a problem, although I don't know what would happen if another student had an allergy.)

I spent part of my youth in western Europe, where it is quite normal for people to bring their dogs to restaurants. Dogs are almost universally allowed on restaurant patios and often indoors. You see a lot of dogs on trams and buses too. I'm not a fan of dog-friendly offices and am not advocating the European model—and there is some variation by country—but I don't think we should treat the practice of bringing along one's dog as weird or outlandish. It may, in some cases, not be a good idea, but it's relatively common.

Okay, but...obvious response, here: I'm not in Western Europe, and my reactions to things are based on the culture I live in. It's not common here to see dogs in restaurants, and if I walked into one and saw dogs indoors, I would walk back out again. And I probably wouldn't eat on a patio if one were on it. If someone brought a dog to a party at my house, it would be a rather large deal, because (a) I have to cats, and (b) I would prefer not to have dogs in my house. I will obviously make an exception for a service dog, but someone who just wants to bring Rover along? No.

I don't foist my pets on other people. Why is it acceptable for dog owners to?

As a service dog handler, I will still not bring my dog into other people's homes if there will always be a person with me who can help mitigate my disabilities. He loves cats but cats are often afraid of him because he's gigantic, so when we're invited to see people with cats he'll stay at home -- it is okay to ask handlers if their dog can stay behind, without any expectation of it, because it is the cats' home. You'd just need to make sure that person was never left unattended, and obvs this is not true for all disabilities, but I'm okay without my dog in short bursts if I have other assistance.

For a service dog, assuming I were given proper notice, I would sequester the kitties. They can handle being in a bedroom for a few hours if it means someone can have the support they need. Notice is the key element, though. If someone just showed up with one (say, a friend's plus one), I'd be a little annoyed, because corralling two cats is no small matter.

And I definitely regard that as different than someone just showing up with a non-service dog because...well, because.

What do allergic people do?

I honestly don't know. I'm from a Dutch-American immigrant family and have spent most of my adult life, when I thought to ask such questions, in the US. Based only on my now-dated observations, I would also say dogs in indoor public places is more common in Holland than in the US, but still less common there than in some southern European countries like France or Italy.

To pop in, often if I have my dog on the bus or make to get on with him any allergic people will shout out that they have an an allergy and I will happily wait with my little man until the next bus. As many times as that may take but I've only experienced it once. When I take him on trains I never go into the carriage proper; I stay by the doors.

With the obvious caveat that there are exceptions for service animals, and the conflicting needs around service animals versus other health issues are quite genuine (although people who have the help of service animals are usually much more cognizant of taking care of the problems), dogs do not belong in shared workspaces.

Yes. Apart from service dogs - guide dogs, epilepsy alert dogs, diabetes alert dogs and similar - dogs do not belong in the workplace.

As a service dog handler, I still get this frequently. The "I'm allergic so you can't have your dog!" I bathe him weekly and how about you just don't come into my office, which has a door that closes and we're good.

He's a service dog, what do they expect you to do instead? That's like demanding someone with a broken leg not use their crutch. That said, in a lot of discussions, theoretical service dogs are used as "gotchas" against people with allergies, etc.

I wish people would just be more open to figuring things out situation by situation, to compromise. <-- general and ridiculous statement

I also have lots of allergies, so I AM sympathetic, which is why I wash my dog and keep him largely in either my office or in large, open-ventilation meeting rooms.

But people love to tell me that I can't have my dog here because either they are allergic, or worse and much more frequent, they are scared. If you are allergic I sympathize. If you're afraid of dogs, just ... stay away from my dog, believe me, he has no interest at all in engaging with you, he's shy and not really a people-dog.

Heh. I had two conflicting responses to this.

On the one hand, I used to be afraid of dogs until about four or five years ago, due to being attacked by one as a child, and I have a phobia (of something else, which I never specify in part because I don't want people engaging in amateur exposure therapy on me) so I am tempted to write a defense of people having a right to their fears. On the other, service dogs have always been an exception to that fear as soon as I learned about them, because service dogs are so well trained. They are the least likely dogs to leap on people, lick them, bite them, etc, which are what I feared from dogs.

Oh, absolutely, especially since this is a psychiatric hospital -- of course everyone has the right to be afraid of things.

But these are people who will yell at me that I need to get off the elevator because they are afraid of dogs, or that I shouldn't be in the building because they are afraid of dogs. I can't walk up stairs, which might have been indicated by the giant dog with a handle on his back. They are welcome to steer clear of us entirely! But I am not going to wait for the next elevator because they're afraid of dogs when I was on it first.

Those people are precisely examples of why it's so hard for well meaning people to find compromises on these things. Ugh. I am so sorry.

I meant to add, my husband was also attacked by a dog as a little kid, so I understand that one specifically. He gets freaked out a little when Trip growls, but I explain (to the point of repeating the same words at the same time) that he is just communicating something and that it's not a sign he's going to use his teeth. And he only does that at home.

But yeah, the elevator people are difficult, as are the people who just yell "Oh look a big mean dog" when we go past. Please don't antagonize my dog. :(

Today in WTF. the LAST thing I would do is holler at a dog I saw was big and worried might be mean. My goal was always to avoid being noticed by the dog. Once again, why are people awful. frowns sympathetically

I like your calming words to your husband. I'm going to try to remember them to remind myself with.

I was given my own closet of an office to share with my dog instead of a cube, and we have two enormous HEPA filters going all the time & I wash him frequently. Service dog handlers can and should be doing our part to meet allergic coworkers partway.

Dog phobic people can just stay away from us, we don't intermingle with many other people throughout the day and my dog certainly is never more than a foot away from me, but when it comes to health needs? We'll work with you.

Exactly, I've never met a service dog handler who was not fabulous about respecting what it means to have a dog in a public space.

Things that I want in a pet-friendly workplace: the ability to take leave as needed to handle pet medical appointments and pet bereavement, with no one giving me grief about last-minute schedule changes. No one seriously judging me if I was in too much of a hurry in the morning to successfully use the lint roller between breakfast petting and walking out the door. Enthusiasm about my pet pictures from like-minded coworkers when I put them up in my cube.

Things I don't want in a pet-friendly workplace: pets at work.

The only times I've had a pet at work with me is when I had to bring the cat to a morning appointment at the vet's and then didn't really want to drive back the hour and a half home (and the vet was only open the half day, since they're also open on Saturday).
My boss was chill with my cat staying in his carrier for the day.

Well, there was the time he had to come to the football game with me, but he stayed in someone's locked office with a note on the door and I made sure to personally clean the office afterwards (the cat has diabetes and nobody was going to be at home to give him his shot on time).

Oh my actual god I HATE dog offices. I worked in one for six years and I loathe the entire concept.

Non-service-dogs do not belong in ANY place of business.

Every time I see a post about 'dog-friendly offices', I am boggled all over again. Because I've never met the dog (other than the elderly/infirm who sleep most of the time) that would not distract its favourite human repeatedly through the day. Which means that allowing a dog in to the office is tantamount to giving that worker permission to underperform.

I've never heard of dog friendly offices where I live. Dog friendly shops, eateries and pubs yes*. But not offices. I take my dog everywhere I can because of how much he helps me mentally but if anyone ever said they were alergic I'd high tail it out of tere with him and make sure I got in touch with that person later to check on them. Just, be decent.

*these places are not everywhere and are always signed as to help those with phobias or alergies.

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Ask a Manager: Update: "How much should we compromise for a dog phobic coworker in a dog office?"

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other than emergencies, pets do not belong at the office. (service animals are not pets)

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