conuly: (Default)
conuly ([personal profile] conuly) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2024-07-07 10:57 pm

Oh, no, if it isn't the consequences of his own actions....

Dear Carolyn: My husband and I separated due to a disagreement 10 months ago. As always, I picked up our son after work and then fixed dinner — my responsibility because my husband says he needs to decompress after work. I used the last of the butter making the mashed potatoes, and my husband berated me for 15 minutes for not having any butter to put on top of the potatoes. As I was cleaning up, it occurred to me how often this happens. If things are not perfect for him, he blows up at me. Before the baby, I spent so much effort ensuring that everything was to his liking, but since the baby, I can’t keep up.

I tried to think of what he ever does to make me happy and came up empty.

I tried to talk to him about this, but he kept twisting it that I was mad at him for wanting butter on his mashed potatoes. I insisted on counseling, and that’s what he kept telling the therapist. She told us therapy wouldn’t work if he was going to stonewall like that. He laughed about it on the way home, saying he showed her.

I took our son and moved out. My husband told me, “Come back when you grow up.” That was two months ago.

Since then, I’ve realized how much easier life is without him. I just have to care for my son and not scramble around trying to make everything perfect for my husband, so there’s actually a little time for me. My husband finally realized I’m serious and is begging for another chance, saying he’ll treat therapy seriously and do more for our son, but I don’t want to try again. Is that awful? Do I owe it to our son and my husband to make myself try again?
— Better Without


Better Without: You owe it to your son not to try again with someone emotionally unwell. Such gloating control and mental abuse is unhealthy for anyone in its range.

Great that your husband’s willing to “treat therapy seriously,” or says he is. But they’re different things, and neither is the try-again point.

First, he may just miss being fed.

Second, he could mean it but still never grow enough for a good enough marriage — one you’d want to be in and want your child to learn from.

Third, he may do all the work and become Santa Claus, and if you don’t want to move back, that’s enough.

If you want to return, then treat his reversal as his very very firstest step of the minimum steps before you’ll even discuss it:

1. Admitting he needs therapy. Solo, not couples. For serious emotional problems that make him unhealthy to live with.
2. Doing all the hard work.
3. Learning that if any of this work is to get you back, then it’s still about him, not you.
4. Being the best, maturest single co-parent he can be. Understanding it’s his only functional path forward.
5. Proving — over time and under duress — that having things “to his liking” is no one’s problem but his or his paid staff’s.

This is information only, not a nod for reconciling. You owe your son a healthy home, not one with his father in it. Solo counseling for you might help.

A reader’s thought:
· You’ll notice he didn’t consider his behavior a problem when he was hurting you, but his behavior finally started hurting him, so now it’s a problem! You should ask him why he didn’t take your unhappiness seriously before. I’d love to know the answer.

Link
cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (Default)

[personal profile] cimorene 2024-07-08 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Nobody gets paid enough for this nonsense. Berating somebody for the lack of butter is not going to make the butter magically appear, and it's not going to keep mistakes from happening in the future. It just makes people sad.

Exactly.
minoanmiss: detail of a Minoan jug, c1600 ice (Minoan bird)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2024-07-08 03:22 am (UTC)(link)
This demonstrates inside an example what scares me about the pushback against the feminist movement. So many people seem to believe that a man has a right to berate his wife for fifteen minutes about butter or whatever, that women in relationships deserve to be treated like this.

FWIW, I wish I could yeet him into the sun so LW doesn't even have to think about him and his goddamn butter anymore.
castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2024-07-08 05:28 am (UTC)(link)
There were a lot of problems in Ex's and my relationship that led to our divorce, but the moment that really clarified that I couldn't stay married to him: He did something I wasn't terribly happy about, and I said "hey, I wish you hadn't done that, because reason." One sentence, maybe two.

He proceeded to spend twenty minutes lecturing me on the first of four reasons why he'd done the thing, and only stopped at twenty minutes because I finally said I needed to go to bed. I spent days in dread that he was going to come back and finish the other three reasons, which he'd written down so he wouldn't forget them. That was when I realized that there was no point in trying to make the marriage work.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2024-07-08 10:33 am (UTC)(link)

That makes so much sense. I cannot think of a single relationship in my life where the other person has regularly berated me that ended up working, starting with my parents singly and together. I'm pretty sure the RDA of beration is zero!

castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2024-07-08 02:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Nobody berates someone who they respect. So if you want a relationship of mutual respect....
castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2024-07-08 03:24 am (UTC)(link)
LW, welcome to the club of "better off without him than with him".

And tell him "sorry, I haven't grown up yet, so I'm not coming back."
topaz_eyes: (kickass Leela)

[personal profile] topaz_eyes 2024-07-08 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
he kept twisting it that I was mad at him for wanting butter on his mashed potatoes. I insisted on counseling, and that’s what he kept telling the therapist. She told us therapy wouldn’t work if he was going to stonewall like that. He laughed about it on the way home, saying he showed her.

He laughed because he thought he pulled one over on the therapist? Good for you, LW, that you got out when you did. Don't even think about returning to him. He only wants his emotional punching bag back.
tielan: (Default)

[personal profile] tielan 2024-07-08 05:42 am (UTC)(link)
Dear LW,

You dodged a bullet there. You are indeed "Better Without". Stay the course.
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2024-07-08 06:27 am (UTC)(link)
Dear LW,

Congratulations on your progress at getting out. Stay strong. Don't go back to therapy with him. He may not be physically violent, but he likes to make other people unhappy.
nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Default)

[personal profile] nineveh_uk 2024-07-08 07:49 am (UTC)(link)
I note the lack of mention in the letter that he has actually apologised for any specific incident or the general pattern of behaviour.
matsushima: i'm sick you're tired let's dance (distant voices)

[personal profile] matsushima 2024-07-08 10:13 am (UTC)(link)
Good job getting out of there but get out and stay out. He is not worth it.

I don't know if I love the "you owe it to your son…" framing. LW deserves not to live with someone this selfish and unkind. (LW's (hopefully soon-to-be ex-)husband might also be "mentally unwell" but that's not why he's like this. Plenty of mentally ill people are lovely, supportive, caring partners. This guy is just an asshole.)
Edited 2024-07-08 10:14 (UTC)
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2024-07-08 01:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. I guess it is directly responding to the LW's question. But the second version of it--outlining what LW's responsibilities to the son are and aren't more is more relevant and doesn't step as much into negating the LW's own deservings/wants/etc.
cereta: Baby Galapagos tortoise hiding in its shell (baby turtle)

[personal profile] cereta 2024-07-08 11:55 am (UTC)(link)
And thus the recent studies that show that single mothers have less work and more leisure time than married mothers is demonstrated in practice.
pauraque: bird flying (Default)

[personal profile] pauraque 2024-07-08 05:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Absolutely. It couldn't be clearer that LW went from taking care of two children to taking care of one.
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[personal profile] dissectionist 2024-07-08 03:04 pm (UTC)(link)
You don’t owe anything to someone who treated you like shit, even if he’s genuinely changed (which I doubt).

You don’t owe it to your son to have his father in the house. I would argue that it’s better for your kid to see a model of a content single mom rather than growing up with the model that wives/moms bend over backward to accommodate husbands/fathers who treat them with disrespect. We sometimes become what we see growing up, and I doubt that’s the kind of husband/father you want your son growing up to become (on either side - if he ends up with a more dominant partner he may end up playing the bending-over-backward role, or may step into the disrespectful-lord role if he ends up with a more submissive partner).

You’re likely to deal with problems on this topic, particularly because Ex is almost certain to try to weaponize your son later on by casting the divorce as your fault, and that you’re selfish and the reason that his family isn’t together like some other families that your child will be acquainted with. Your child may lash out at you about this, particularly if he identifies himself more with the absent parent whose love he longs for (as versus the parent at home, whose love he takes for granted). But eventually your son will come to see the truth of who his dad is, and things will calm down. None of these are reasons to get back together with your ex; temporary suffering is always better than permanent suffering. They’re just things to prepare yourself for so it doesn’t hurt as much when it happens.
ethelmay: (Default)

[personal profile] ethelmay 2024-07-08 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
"Come back when you grow up" being from HIM to HER is such DARVO shit. It's blindingly clear that he's the one who needs to grow up.
librarygeek: cute cartoon fox with nose in book (Default)

[personal profile] librarygeek 2024-07-08 11:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for the DARVO acronym. I've observed that behavior, but I didn't know it could be so widespread.
laurajv: Holmes & Watson's car is as cool as Batman's (Default)

[personal profile] laurajv 2024-07-08 09:27 pm (UTC)(link)
"You owe your son a healthy home, not one with his father in it."

yesssssssss thank you carolyn. i wish someone had told my mother this.