conuly: (Default)
conuly ([personal profile] conuly) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2020-11-26 12:36 am

Two controlling men for the price of one!

These are from the same Ask Harriet column, so I'll link at the top.

1. DEAR HARRIETTE: I bought some expensive shoes, and my husband found out and told me to take them back to the store. Bills are tight, and he was counting on using the money to buy our car new tires. I took them to the store, and they told me they don’t give refunds. My husband was understanding and told me to keep the shoes, that I deserve them and he would figure out a way to get the money for new tires.

I felt guilty for not talking to him before a big purchase, so I was able to sell the shoes to someone and get the money back. But my husband was upset that I got rid of the shoes after he told me to keep them. He feels like I keep undermining him as a man, but I was only trying to right my wrongs. I’m so confused. Did I do the right thing? -- Gender Roles


DEAR GENDER ROLES: What you need is clearer communication. It’s understandable that you felt guilty after not communicating your desire for the shoes to your husband before buying them. Your guilt, however, continued to drive your actions without keeping your husband in the loop.

Now you two need to sit down and talk. Tell your husband you were not trying to undermine him. Explain that you felt bad and wanted to right your wrong. You now realize it would have been much better to talk it through with him. You could have mentioned that you would look to see if you could sell the shoes. Who knows if he would have liked that idea? To get on the same page, make an effort to talk to each other more and work through your issues and differences. This should help to bring you closer.

*************


2. DEAR HARRIETTE: My fiancee and I are police officers. We met on the job, and I would tell her while we were dating that one day I would marry her, and she could quit the job so I would know she would be safe.

Now that we are engaged, I brought up the topic of her quitting, and she just keeps brushing it off and making excuses. I didn’t make a fuss because I know she loves the job. Now she is pregnant and still wants to work desk duty until she delivers the baby and wants to return to work after delivering the baby. I don’t think we both need to be working full-time and putting our newborn baby into daycare. How can I approach this conversation and get her to understand where I am coming from? -- Stay at Home


DEAR STAY AT HOME: It sounds like you told your fiancee many times that you would make it possible for her to stop working after you were married. Did you ever ask her if that’s what she wanted? Your note sounds like you made the presumption that she agreed. Did she ever tell you her desires?

Right now, it sounds like she clearly wants to keep working. You two have to work this out together. You cannot decide for her what she is going to do. As a family, you need to talk it out, figure out options for child care and your careers. Just because your thinking makes perfect sense to you does not mean that she shares your beliefs. Do your best not to try to coerce her into your way of thinking. Talk it out and make a plan together.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-11-26 06:14 am (UTC)(link)
Being as that he's a police officer she might want to check with an abuse hotline anyway.

Did you ever ask her if that’s what she wanted? Your note sounds like you made the presumption that she agreed. Did she ever tell you her desires?

If this is so obvious Harriettesees it...
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2020-11-26 06:31 am (UTC)(link)
I had the exact opposite read.

The guy in the first letter needs to get over his fragile masculinity, but otherwise he's frustrated by a lack of communication on money issues, which seems reasonable enough. First LW made a major purchase (shoes the cost of a set of tires!) without first discussing it, which is a violation of trust in most relationships. The guy got upset, but then maybe he felt guilty about it and decided he wanted her to keep the shoes. When she sold the shoes, he felt worse because he felt responsible, so instead of thanking LW, he got upset again. The bit about "undermining him as a man" is absolute BS, but the rest of the letter just says to me these people need to learn to talk to one another. (Did LW know their car needed tires?)

On the other hand, I don't see much hope for the guy in the second letter. He thinks he has the right to make decisions for his fiancee. Trying to force her to quit her job is pretty damn controlling.
shirou: (cloud 2)

[personal profile] shirou 2020-11-26 06:40 am (UTC)(link)
I attributed LW1's nervous tone to financial stress ("bills are tight"), but you may be right.
minoanmiss: Nubian girl with dubious facial expression (dubious Nubian girl)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-11-26 06:45 am (UTC)(link)
I may be projecting, but I agree with Conuly. LW#1's emotional framework of "beating herself up at every successive error" resonated with me -- when I'm not doing well mentally I act like that too, and that behavior pattern is a set of emotional scars. Based on what I've learned, I think it's not unlikely that some point she may have developed this in response to being abused.
sara: S (Default)

[personal profile] sara 2020-11-26 07:11 am (UTC)(link)
See, I've been in relationships with people who would absolutely spend the equivalent of tires money on a basically selfish purchase, knowing full well we needed tires (or rent or the phone bill or whatever), then insist they had no idea we didn't have the money.

I sincerely do not believe they were the people behaving appropriately in those cases, so I'm not very sympathetic to the letter writer in #1. Although the masculinity stuff there is bizarre.
cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (Default)

[personal profile] cimorene 2020-11-26 10:35 am (UTC)(link)
My sister's life would've been ruined multiple times if not for my parents stepping in to save them from debt because even though she and her husband work full-time in good jobs, until recently NEITHER of them bothered to have an idea of what their budget could afford, or even track how much money they spent. Of course that situation is just as dangerous as not knowing because your partner didn't tell you.
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2020-11-26 10:50 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with you about the worrisome patterns from lw, but I'm not sure I see evidence in the letter that it's husbands fault - they both need better communication, and the masculinity thing is a warning, but I think it's possible the LW's issues are from a relationship that predates the husband and he's just not handling them well. On the other hand you could be 100% right, hard to tell.
green_grrl: (Default)

[personal profile] green_grrl 2020-11-27 01:10 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, this. Sounds like she’s been gaslit a lot. I also didn’t like he 1) got upset when she handed him tire money, and 2) told her she’s undermining him as a man. That last bit is toxic right there.