minoanmiss: Minoan lady scribe holding up a recursive scroll (Scribe)
minoanmiss ([personal profile] minoanmiss) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2020-11-12 12:53 pm

Dear Prudence: My Ex Is Upset About the Way He’s Depicted in My Art.

Q. An artful PSA: Recently, an ex of mine contacted me about some digitally altered pics I had posted detailing experiences I went through with him. He wanted me to remove them, as they did not portray him as the “nice guy” everyone knows. I had always kept my promise of never posting them when we were together, but nothing was said or implied about after a breakup. I’m an artist and writer. Sometimes these guys become my muse or source of inspiration when I need to express my thoughts and feelings at the time. They also serve as PSAs for people in similar situations who might feel as if they are going through, let’s say, domestic violence. Sure, I know there is a risk, but am I obligated to take down my artistic creations when there are no names attached to these pieces? I should add he was never a follower of mine on these sites when we were together.

A: “Obligated” in what sense? Morally, legally, relationally? How “altered” are these pictures, and was the alteration in service of increased anonymity for him, or in heightened dramatic tension? Did you, say, blur his face a little bit, or did you fictionalize the scenes entirely? I can’t help but suspect that what you altered, and in what direction, is the most important question and you declined to elaborate on that front because you weren’t sure it would help your case. I don’t think it’s relevant whether your ex “followed” your social media page when you were together. If he’s still recognizable in the pictures you’ve posted, I don’t think it’s relevant that you’ve withheld his name, either; if he might reasonably expect people to be able to identify him in the pictures, he certainly has a right to object. At that point you’ll have to use your own judgment to determine whether you think his objection holds water.

If you don’t care about staying friends with your ex, that’s a relevant data point. You might at that point decide you want to stand by your artistic decision, even if he objects to it or threatens legal action, and perhaps consult a lawyer yourself. But there’s a difference between “I want to keep it up because it’s true and operating as a PSA” and “I want to keep it up because it’s my art,” and it will be important for you to decide which assertion you want to make.
jadelennox: Senora Sabasa Garcia, by Goya (Default)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2020-11-12 07:51 pm (UTC)(link)
On the other hand, the LW doesn't actually accuse the ex of mistreatment, they just ... allow it to be inferred.

"experiences I went through with him"
"they did not portray him as the “nice guy” everyone knows"
"people in similar situations who might feel as if they are going through, let’s say, domestic violence."

Like, is the LW being cagey because they don't like admitting they're a survivor? (Which is normal human behavior, and might be what's happening here.) Or are they being cagey because the "experiences I went through with him" are "now that we've broken up I get to be petty about every time he was unfair in a fight where we were shouting at one another." (Which is also normal human behavior.)

Because if it's the latter, than sure, LW can put the art up, but if they want ethical absolution for doing so, they should learn the difference between what you can do, and what you can do while still feeling like you're the righteous one.

(Also I have more questions about level of anonymity. Can mutual friends identify him from image or context? Can his current and former employers? Can his mom? And did you "digitally alter" by blurring his face, or by putting a realistic looking fake swastika tattoo on his arm? For that matter, internet trolls regularly make incredibly abusive photoshops of people they brigade; are we sure LW isn't doing that?)

I am not usually so suspicious of LWs but there's something so cagey in the way this is written, which might, to be fair, be because they're trying to keep this anonymous and that means they need to leave out details.
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2020-11-12 08:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, same here to all of this.

If they're taking photos that they promised would not be posted, altering them to materially change what they appear to portray, but leaving people completely recognizable, and then sharing them around everywhere they can, that's asshole behavior even if the portrayal isn't wildly inaccurate.

If they're taking, idk, blurry arms and clothes that nobody who didn't know the context could ID, or altering them so heavily nothing can be ID'd, that they took with the expectation that maybe someday they would end up in the art resources pile, and using them as a small part of clearly manipulated, complex compositions, maybe. Ex is probably justified in being angry but that doesn't mean they were wrong to make and post the art, just that post-break up there is usually a lot of justified anger around.

The careful way they phrase it makes me suspect it's the first.

If the ex was a violent abuser and they are posting photos accurately depicting that abuse as a way to make his abuse public, assholishness questions no longer apply.

If they had a crappy breakup, or even if say the ex cheated but just in an averagely shitty way, and LW is dramatically altering photos in order to make them look bad, or use them as an stand-in for the concept of any abusive ex in their art or something, then they don't get to say it's okay because it's for a good cause.

There is a lot of range between those two but way they carefully hedge about what ex actually did while making it sound as bad as possible makes me suspect it's closer to the second.
Edited 2020-11-12 20:08 (UTC)
jadelennox: Senora Sabasa Garcia, by Goya (Default)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2020-11-13 02:16 am (UTC)(link)
I don't think your interpretation is unlikely! Advice column letters always leave out so many relevant details, and then we all map our own experiences and suspicions on to them.
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2020-11-12 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
My guess—and it’s only a guess—is that if LW were truthfully portraying their ex, they would have managed to say so.
shirou: (cloud 2)

[personal profile] shirou 2020-11-13 03:25 am (UTC)(link)
I can see trying to avoid an argument with the ex, but we’re not talking about a conversation with the ex. We’re taking about conspicuous ambiguity in a letter to an advice columnist. It’s still just a guess, but I suspect LW is being less than truthful in their portrayal of their ex.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (twitch city: bunk beds)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2020-11-13 03:25 am (UTC)(link)
I'm trying to imagine a conversation that specifically limited a promise to not use specific photos for your art to the time you would be together, but didn't imply anything about what might or might not be okay after a breakup? Like, "please don't use photos of me in your art while we're together" is a weird thing to say and implies at least a possible change in status with a breakup, and "please don't use photos of me in your art" is both a more normal thing to say and doesn't actually leave room for "but maybe that just meant while we were together"...I don't know if this is the most important part of the issue, but...how did that conversation go?

Also, I'm seeing people slip into she/her for the LW, is there something I'm missing that tells us that?
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2020-11-13 02:23 pm (UTC)(link)
It sounds like this isn't the first time LW has used photos of SOs in their art, so I can maybe see something like that being said in the context of a conversation about their other art, where they volunteer something like "don't worry, I don't make art of people I'm dating," and the ex let it sit at that. Especially if it was during a phase in the relationship where they were both thinking that "While we're together" means "forever".

It's still kind of a stretch though. Especially if ex didn't explicitly give permission to use them after the breakup.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2020-11-16 05:46 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that sounds like a way more human conversation than anything I was coming up with! I guess in that case I can the LW taking the context that they were making art with previous exes' photos and the ex not explicitly saying "but you clearly make art of people you used to date and what if we break up?" (evidenced by the plural in Sometimes these guys become my muse or source of inspiration when I need to express my thoughts and feelings at the time.) as at least a lack of explicit non-consent. It's not consistent with my values (I think the ex expressing discomfort in that context would be implied non-consent, regardless of the LW's specific words in response) but I can see how someone could rationalize it if they wanted to.

(BTW that reminds me that the plural in the above-quoted section also makes me skeptical of the theory that the ex acted badly and the LW is just telling the truth about their experiences: if it was about the ex's behaviour, why would it be lumped in with LW's past practice of ex-related-art?)
Edited 2020-11-16 05:57 (UTC)
liv: cartoon of me with long plait, teapot and purple outfit (mini-me)

[personal profile] liv 2020-11-14 02:50 pm (UTC)(link)
So here's a counterpoint story: My problem with Seraphine is that I think she’s based on me. If the ex in some way behaved "not nicely" to the LW, and LW is using his (recognizable) image in a PSA about domestic violence, well, in some sense he could have avoided this situation by not treating his partner badly. But there are a lot of interpretations of this letter where I mostly sympathize with the ex. If LW is using ex as a "muse" without his consent, and associating his image with much worse behaviour than what he actually did, that's pretty close to libel and really not very ethical in general, especially if ex explicitly asked for a promise not to use his image and LW unilaterally decided that it only applied for the duration of the relationship.