conuly: (Default)
conuly ([personal profile] conuly) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2025-06-13 03:24 am

(no subject)

Dear Meghan: Our 11-year-old daughter is not motivated by personal hygiene. She will shower when reminded to, but she does not wash her hair effectively (I still have to wash it for her sometimes to make sure it gets clean). She is in puberty and is starting to get pimples on her face, but she will not wash her face at night unless I basically walk her into the bathroom and do it with her. When she brushes her teeth in the morning, she still has morning breath afterward, so clearly is not doing an effective job.

I am at a loss. We have worked with her and, frankly, nagged her for years, and I’m just tired of it. Is this developmentally appropriate? We do not believe she is neurodivergent, and she’s a great kid — smart, social and involved in a lot of activities. I don’t understand this refusal to do the basics of effective personal hygiene. The approach we’ve been taking is clearly not working, so I would love some advice. Thank you!

— Nagging Not Working


Nagging Not Working: Personal hygiene is a sticky issue in these in-between years. Your daughter is no longer a young girl, but she’s not quite a teen yet. Hormones, changes in her body and social pressures all take center stage at this age, and three things come to mind when I read this letter. First, parents need to understand the development stage of their child. Second, I am not sure that neurodivergence is off the table. And third, you need to find a new style of communication with her, stat.

Developmentally, your daughter is experiencing puberty in her body, but her mind may still be immature. In her book, “The Crucial Years,” psychologist Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler says: “Children in the earlier years of middle school aren’t equipped for puberty. Their bodies may be maturing faster, but their brains are not. … This means that kids under the age of twelve aren’t ready to understand or process many of the feelings and situations their changing bodies might lead to.”

Essentially I am wondering, despite the nagging and helping, does your daughter actually understand what is happening in her body? She needs guidance and support, beginning with flipping through a book (choose one that matches your family’s values) with her, detailing what puberty is and isn’t. This isn’t a moment of shame, “See, this is why you have more zits and your hair is oily!” Rather, it’s a moment to say: “Hey, everyone goes through this, and here are some ideas for how to take care of your body. Let’s figure it out so it works for you.”

I know that there is much talk about the autism spectrum these days, but it is worth mentioning that girls go un- and underdiagnosed, often well into adulthood, because of how well they mask (which is the term used for coping to look “neurotypical” in social settings and even with family). It isn’t that people with autism don’t “care” about hygiene, it’s that their sensory system is sometimes overwhelmed, clouding how well a task has been completed or even completed at all. Some people hate the feeling of sudsy hair, or the toothpaste is too minty. And some people simply get stuck in their own minds and don’t attend to needs right in front of them — which is maddening until you understand that this is not a willpower issue.

Finally, I don’t know whether your standards of cleanliness are, in fact, appropriate for your daughter. Check with your pediatrician to see whether your expectations are in line with typical hygiene behavior in an 11-year-old. If your expectations are reasonable, use the Ross Greene Collaborative and Proactive Solutions problem-solving method to find solutions that work for both parties (there are books, a website and trained facilitators). Hygiene is important, but your daughter’s voice must be centered here, and the Greene model allows for both parent and child to voice their point of view. When the parent is controlling a child’s body as much as you are, this problem-solving model may feel slow and frustrating at first, but there’s a bigger goal: We want our children to find reliance on and independence with their own bodies. You may have a vision of cleaner hair and fresh breath (understandably), but let’s instead focus on helping your daughter grow skills to care for her own body. There are numerous resources available in the Greene approach, and don’t be afraid to hire someone trained in the framework to help you.

In the meantime, immediately find and praise what your daughter is doing well. She may feel quite ashamed by your fussing over her body, so establish a deeper connection by creating situations where your daughter shines (especially when it comes to self-care). Whether it is her outfit or hair style, find what is working and truly see her, while ignoring the bad breath and skin (for now). Get the support you need, start with her doctor and stay loving. Good luck.

Link
mrissa: (Default)

[personal profile] mrissa 2025-06-13 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Q: LW, if you had a son instead of a daughter, would you even ask whether this is developmentally appropriate? I think you would not. 11yo boys are widely agreed to be stinky little monkeys with a few glowing exceptions. Hormones are doing a lot of things to your kid right now, but "magically make it clear what hygiene will achieve results she wants" is not one of them.
lauradi7dw: me wearing a straw hat and gray mask (anniversary)

[personal profile] lauradi7dw 2025-06-13 03:11 pm (UTC)(link)
My daughter was in elementary school in the 1990s. When she was in the 5th grade, the genders were separated for the puberty talk. The teacher remarked ruefully that the boys were given a free sample size of deodorant (presumably donated by the company or local drugstore) but the girls were not, and teacher felt that it was a mistake not to give it to the girls.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2025-06-13 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm still indignant about the primary school teacher who asked if I ever showered when I was showering two, three, four, or five times PER DAY. (Summer, hot weather, no airconditioning at home, very hot fibreboard/timber house with no insulation.)

What I should have said was "Yes, but by the time I walk here in hot weather in a polyester uniform I might as well have not bothered."
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2025-06-13 07:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I wonder how much of the deoderant thing is

a) most spray on deoderants (Axe/Lynx/Rexona) smell REVOLTING

b) if you shave your underarms, deoderant stings like hell on shaved underarms - not just the day you shaved either, but for the whole week
minoanmiss: Modern art of Minoan woman fllipping over a bull (Bull-Dancer)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2025-06-13 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)
At the risk of TMI:

when I shave my underarms I immediately put cocoa butter or shea butter on them. That heals them up enough to withstand deoderant.
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2025-06-13 08:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Huh, I'd never heard of that!

Mind you, it's near impossible to find real unadulterated cocoa butter or shea butter in Australia

all the stuff labelled cocoa butter or shea butter

is mostly artificial synthetic nonsense and fragrance, plus a TINY percentage of actual cocoa butter or shea butter.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2025-06-15 01:03 am (UTC)(link)
Coconut oil? Modulo allergies of course
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2025-06-15 03:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, the fact that I do 100% of my shopping online since COVID started probably doesn't help

although almost all Australian stores aimed at migrants are aimed

at people with Indian heritage

or Pakistani heritage,

or Italian heritage,

or Greek heritage,

or Chinese heritage,

or Vietnamese heritage,

it's only really been quite recently that Australia has had significant migration from sub-saharan Africa, mainly refugees from Côte d'Ivoire/Ivory coast, so there are ***very*** few stores in Australia aimed at migrants with African heritage. There might be some in Sydney? but I've never seen such a store in Perth.
katiedid717: (Default)

[personal profile] katiedid717 2025-06-13 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Regarding the point about deodorant stinging, I wonder if this is a stick versus spray issue? Because I have never had my deodorant sting after shaving my armpits, but I've also always used stick deodorant and have never used aerosol
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2025-06-14 04:09 am (UTC)(link)
For me, all deodorant stings if I shave my armpits, which I solved by

a) no longer shaving my armpits; and also

b) no longer wearing deodorant. (I decided that washing my armpits with soap was enough.)

But, I have an allergist-diagnosed fragrance allergy,

and also really sensitive skin that stings even from moisturisers targeted at people with very sensitive skin,

so it is possible that my experience is not universal.
katiedid717: (Default)

[personal profile] katiedid717 2025-06-14 04:14 am (UTC)(link)
Ahh, yeah, the allergies could definitely be a major factor there! One of my sisters has allergy-induced eczema and a typical allergy to lanolin which, it turns out, was an inactive ingredient in the ointment she was prescribed for her eczema (before the allergy was known); there are quite a few mundane things that will make her skin feel tightnand itchy
lilysea: Serious (Default)

[personal profile] lilysea 2025-06-14 04:55 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, among other things,

my skin HATES alcohol (which is in a lot of deodorants and moisturisers)

and REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hates benzoates (which are used as a preservative in a lot of deodorants, moisturisers, body washes, soaps...)

Most "sensitive skin products" are off limits to me because they use benzoates as a preservative.
katiedid717: (Default)

[personal profile] katiedid717 2025-06-14 09:01 am (UTC)(link)
That sounds absolutely miserable!