cereta: The Turtle, whose thought is slow but always kind (Tower 1)
Lucy ([personal profile] cereta) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2025-02-24 02:15 pm

Dear Prudence: Do I have to attend Mass to attend a christening

Letter is down the page.

Dear Prudence,

A few years ago, I attended a christening for my friend Deb’s son. I’d never been to one before, so I wasn’t sure what to expect. I was a bit surprised by the length of the Mass beforehand, which lasted for over an hour. The christening itself came at the very end and was over relatively quickly. Now Deb’s had her second baby, and I’m invited to this christening too. I asked if she anticipated the ceremony would start at the same time as the first one, and she just told me what time the Mass started. I said I didn’t plan on attending Mass, but that I’d be there for the christening. She got really irritated and said coming to just the ceremony and luncheon would be like skipping a wedding ceremony and showing up at the reception. I don’t think that’s a great comparison, because the wedding ceremony is incorporated throughout the Mass. I wouldn’t miss anything if I skipped this religious service. I’m not sure why I’m expected to sit through a full Sunday Mass when it’s not my religion. If it matters, Deb isn’t really religious at all. Besides her wedding (which was really more for her husband—she would have happily been married by a judge) and the last christening, I’ve never known her to attend Mass in the 10 years we’ve been friends. So, am I being rude by not attending the Mass?

—Christening Conundrum

It’s less a question of “Is it universally rude to skip an hourlong religious ceremony before a christening and catered luncheon?” (which has several answers, many of which add up to “not really, but … ”) than it is “Will Deb be offended if I skip Mass before her kid’s christening?” To which the answer is pretty clearly yes, because she’s told you she will. In the grand scheme of things, if this 10-year friendship is otherwise solid, and you don’t have any particular objection to her lightly observed religion, I’d advise you to go for the whole thing, be bored for an hour, then have a lot of cake and praise her second child’s noble mien and regal bearing throughout the sprinkling. Getting into an argument about how much a christening does or doesn’t track with a wedding seems like a waste of your time and hers. It’s perfectly fine, and common, to sit through the service of a faith you don’t practice because you’ve been invited as a guest to celebrate an important milestone that’s important to the hosts. No one expects you to adopt that faith as your own or endorse the homily.

Now, just because this matters to her doesn’t mean you’re honor-bound to go. Your friendship doesn’t seem like it’s on the verge of a permanent rupture, and there’s nothing inconsistent with loving your friend, wanting to celebrate her baby, respecting her religion, and not wanting to sit through a full hour of Mass yourself. Plenty of people love their friends dearly but still wouldn’t attend a lengthy religious service just to please them. Instead of trying to negotiate the relative importance of the Mass, you might tell her this: “I’d love to come and celebrate the christening, but I’m not religious, and I’m not comfortable attending another service. If coming late for the christening and lunch would offend you, I won’t do it. I don’t share your faith, but I respect it, and I hope we can find a way to celebrate little Konrad von Marburg together another time.”
jack: (Default)

[personal profile] jack 2025-02-24 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not Christian and I think for most hour-long solemn cultural rituals it's rude to only go to the one bit you're interested in. If people invite you to something, you don't have to go, but it's usually rude to imply that it's undesirable. It's fine to just not go. Deb might be fine if you joined in the luncheon, especially if you're more uncomfortable than you acknowledged about going to a religious service.

Whether it makes sense for Deb to have the child baptised when she doesn't go to other services is between her and the community: whether it's fine or a bad idea, you don't really gain anything by going to only the Christening part of the service.
ioplokon: purple cloth (Default)

[personal profile] ioplokon 2025-02-24 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, it is a bit like skipping the wedding mass & only showing up for the vows... I think most people would view the Mass as part of the christening, even though it's not the part where it's literally happening. Like I just don't think they are severable to most people?
mrissa: (Default)

[personal profile] mrissa 2025-02-24 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)
When my aunt and uncle knew that they had a lot of friends and relatives of other religions who would want to celebrate with them but would not feel super-enthusiastic about sitting through a whole church service, they arranged for their kids to be baptized privately (that is, with friends and family but not as part of the regular service). I am not RC and don't know whether an RC priest would agree to that, but the Protestant hymnals I've experienced have baptism services written as though they can be held as entirely separate short services even though people mostly don't use them that way, they just fold the parts into the regular service that aren't already in it.

But yeah, coming into church after an hour and coming up so you got a good seat to see the baby being baptized would be considered pretty crass in my faith tradition.

Also, most of the Protestant baptisms I've experienced have been toward the beginning of the ceremony, so the idea that it would come at the end when everybody had already left is educational for me, thank you for expanding my knowledge of other denominations a bit.
wychwood: chess queen against a runestone (Default)

[personal profile] wychwood 2025-02-24 10:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Baptisms at my (Catholic) church nearly always work that way - they're held separately, for the family and friends, and don't include a Mass.
ioplokon: purple cloth (Default)

[personal profile] ioplokon 2025-02-25 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)
True, but I still think it would be rude or weird to just show up at the end? Though if LW had just said they want to come but may be late, they could probably get away with it. :p
mrissa: (Default)

[personal profile] mrissa 2025-02-24 09:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes this. Absolutely this.

I feel like the problem came in when LW centered what she'll get out of it. You don't go to other people's milestones because you'll get something out of it or (nearly) every single graduation would be empty.

Also, wow do LW and I have different ideas of what a lengthy religious ceremony entails.
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2025-02-24 09:57 pm (UTC)(link)
every single graduation would be empty.

I still resent the time I spent at my own high school graduation. Hours of my life which I will literally never get back.
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)

[personal profile] redbird 2025-02-24 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Based on what LW said about the wedding, I think Deb's husband is the one who wants the child baptized, and Deb doesn't much care.

It also doesn't sound as though LW has any objection to the religious aspect of attending Mass, she just thinks it's inconveniently long.
matsushima: (deep sigh)

[personal profile] matsushima 2025-02-24 10:56 pm (UTC)(link)
It also doesn't sound as though LW has any objection to the religious aspect of attending Mass, she just thinks it's inconveniently long.
That's what gets me about LW. If the question was "How can I be there for this thing that's important to my friend without violating my own religious beliefs?" the answer would be very different! LW just thinks Mass is tedious.
conuly: (Default)

[personal profile] conuly 2025-02-24 09:19 pm (UTC)(link)
A christianing is religious ceremony, it is literally in the name. You can't just skip the religious part!
movingfinger: (Default)

[personal profile] movingfinger 2025-02-24 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Christening is about receiving the baby into the religious community. Deb and her husband can do that with their church and then have a party at home for all comers including the non-Catholics.

The last wedding Mass I attended was brisk and was over within an hour. Might have been three-quarters including the recessional.
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)

[personal profile] melannen 2025-02-25 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. As part of attending a Christening, you are agreeing to support the baby in their Christian faith and community as they grow up - and that includes attending mass.

You certainly aren't obligated to do any of that or even agree with any of that - but if you can't sit through a single Mass for the kid, then you can't in good conscience speak along during the baptismal part. Tell your friend that you aren't religious enough to feel comfortable coming to the baptism part, and can you come to just the luncheon?

(Also the "only attend the reception and not the ceremony" thing was weird. Do people not do that? People have done that at most of the religious weddings I've been to lately.)
harpers_child: melaka fray reading from "Tales of the Slayers". (Default)

[personal profile] harpers_child 2025-02-25 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
I'm suddenly grateful that the last few christenings (Roman Catholic. Southern US.) I've attended were their own thing and didn't involve a full mass.

Then again the last few christenings I've attended have all involved at least one non-Catholic god parent. (Several of my cousins baptized their kids to appease parents.)
cimorene: cartoony drawing of a woman's head in profile giving dubious side-eye (Default)

[personal profile] cimorene 2025-02-25 06:54 pm (UTC)(link)

I think it's kind of self evident that most churches would consider it rude to deliberately walk in or out in the middle of a religious service, which is what she's proposing. I also think it's likely that if the church in question took a relaxed stance to that, they would probably already have scheduled the ceremony without a mass, as some others do. I would certainly find the question annoying in the friend's place, and the fact that LW is still considering/arguing after the friend's response is... confusing. Who would it benefit? Isn't the whole point to support the friend?
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2025-02-26 10:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay I think size matters here. If it's a big enough congregation that nobody will notice you slipping in late, obviously you can do that and nobody will know. You won't have a great view of the baptism though. Sadly, the LW has eliminated this option by talking to Deb about it, and now can't believably join the rest of the group after the service and say "I arrived a little late and sat in the back to avoid disturbing the service" and fudge how much of the service they missed.