agonyaunt | (no subject)

Dear Eric: My daughter is dating a young man whose parents, at one point, belonged to some religious group that believed in having lots of children — so they had 12. Sam is right in the middle. As far as I can tell, the kids were expected to more or less raise themselves, and all were home-schooled.

Sam has a learning disability, which his parents ignored, and he has flunked out of college twice. He has lots of intelligence but not the tools to use it. Life has taught him that he is on his own and that few people can be trusted.

He is not on good terms with his parents. But he loves my daughter, which counts for something with me.

He also dislikes me and our family because he learned that I was encouraging my daughter to get to know a guy who was interested in her who had a PhD. The PhD turned out to be a real jerk, but Sam now bears a grudge against me for being “elitist.” (Shame on me for thinking a PhD has better job prospects than a high school grad.)

Sam currently works in a bar with hopes of learning how to be a bartender. His plan for the future is to marry my daughter and make a go of being a carpenter. I find myself not being crazy about the guy. Are we elitist for wanting our daughter to find a partner who has a decent relationship with his family and some kind of viable career path?

You refuse to accept Sam for who he is, so it doesn’t take an educated guess to see why the foundation of your relationship with him is rotten. This not only negatively impacts your connection with him but has the potential to drive a wedge between you and your daughter.

Could Sam, conceivably, make more money with a PhD? Sure, in theory, but which industry? How long will it take? He could also make more money as surgeon general or as an astronaut or a TikTok star. In theory. Moreover, the actual person with a PhD whom you encouraged your daughter to drop Sam for was a jerk. So, what are we doing here? You’ve created a series of what-ifs that are keeping you from seeing what-is.

Let's drill down on what is:

Should he choose to pursue it, carpentry is a viable career path. Per the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, there are, on average, about 79,500 new carpentry openings per year and, as an apprenticeship-based field, it doesn't have many barriers to entry.

More importantly, Sam loves your daughter; your daughter has chosen Sam. He doesn't have a good relationship with his family, but do you expect him to be on great terms with people who neglected him? Don't blame him for where he comes from. See him for what he's overcome and who he is trying to become.

If you want Sam to like your family, you need to make some amends. Acknowledge that you tried to undercut him and that it was wrong. If you're worried about his career prospects, what can you do to help him in his pursuits?
You can salvage this, but continuing to make Sam feel bad about himself because of things that are beyond his control will most likely backfire. Whereas, if you make this right and continue to build a healthy relationship with him, you may get a friend and family rate on future carpentry needs. With the price of lumber what it is, that's nothing to sneeze at!

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To answer the question asked: Yeah, you are elitist, and you also suck.

you know, it's possible to worry about the job prospects of a child's financial partner without bleeding elitism and assholery all over, but some people just can't manage it.

would advise Sam to go for masonry instead. big shortage of master masons, esp. those who can do restoration work. they make a killing.

LW says they really want their daughter to "find a partner who has a decent relationship with his family." In other words, they want her to find a man whose parents were not jerks who alienated him. But if they're worried that their grandchildren might have grandparents who are bad examples of parenting? Who are jerks with bad values who alienated their kids? They should look to the beam in their own eye, to use a religious metaphor they might not like.

They want her to find a man who will not encourage her to cut off her parents if they are jerks...

Shame on me for thinking a PhD has better job prospects than a high school grad.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Okay, maybe I've just known too many adjunct faculty members, but yeah, I don't assume that a Ph. D is automatically going to be gainfully employed.

I can see being concerned about Sam's family background and whether he'll consciously or unconsciously try to shove LW's daughter into a role against her will, and whether Sam's going to continue trusting daughter when she inevitably makes some small mistake. Also, "thinking about becoming a carpenter" isn't the same thing as "has started his apprenticeship".

But LW's worrying about the wrong thing. If one of my kids wants to become a carpenter (plumber, AC technician, any skilled trade), I will be happy that they've found a job that's currently difficult to outsource/offshore.

I was going to write this but your version is bettter

My ex's brother started out as an apprentice electrician after high school, and now he makes more money than his siblings who have graduate degrees. Not that money is everything, but LW really has a warped perspective on the job market.

yeah that is the correct number of HAs.

LW is not in academia, that's for damn sure. And carpenters can become successful enough to basically be the local rich people, not to mention, if Sam builds up a successful carpentry business, these days you sell that shit to venture capital and retire young.

Who is this idiot who isn't drooling at the prospect of having an actual skilled carpenter in the family?

I think Sam's real issue is that Sam needs training, he needs to learn to work under someone doing exactly what he's told unless it's safety-related ("code says 4" here"), and it's not clear whether he's able to do that. I guess if he can succeed as a bartender, which involves the boss on the one side (do not waste stock) and customers on the other (drink has to be made correctly) and the health department's rules overall, he may be able to start as an apprentice carpenter. He will be paid better than most Ph.D.'s, have benefits and a union, and LW is, again, an idiot with no idea what the actual job markets look like at the moment.

The LW, if they wanted to be helpful, would be looking into training programs with Sam and daughter and screening them for one that Sam could succeed in.