agonyaunt | Care & Feeding: Puberty Debate

My wife and I are both women and have an almost-8-year-old daughter. We had a surrogate, but we used my egg and donor sperm. I went through puberty pretty early (hair growth at 7, breast growth at 8/9, and period at 10). Since my daughter is approaching that age, I figured it was time for us to talk to her about upcoming changes to her body that she may already be experiencing (she’s very private about her body, which we respect).

I brought this up to my wife to find a good day for us to sit down with our daughter to discuss this, but my wife blew up and said it was way too early and we should wait until our daughter is 12 or 13. Based on my own history, that seems late to me. When I asked why, my wife said it was “bad feminism” to talk about this too early, wouldn’t elaborate further, and just stormed out, which is very unlike her. I’m not sure what to do here. I don’t want to lie to my wife, but I don’t want to leave my daughter in the dark. Should I have a talk with my daughter about this behind my wife’s back?

—Too Soon?

Dear Too Soon,

Given your history, I totally understand why you’d want to start talking about puberty soon, and I agree that 12 or 13 is too late. Kids shouldn’t be surprised or left wondering about the changes occurring—which is why, in many schools, discussion of puberty and sex is part of the health curriculum around fifth grade. But I imagine you want to talk about this with your child before she gets the information in a public setting, where she might not feel as comfortable asking questions.

I don’t think you have to or should have these talks behind your wife’s back—she should know that you plan to, and hopefully she will come to see the importance of and be part of these discussions as well. Talking to your kids about their bodies and sex and consent in healthy, factual, nonshaming ways is good feminism! I really hope that she cools down and is then able to have a real conversation with you about this, because the two of you need to be able to discuss it in a way that doesn’t risk putting your kid in the middle of a conflict. Your daughter is just turning 8, so I think you do have a little more time to talk with your wife and at least try to get on the same page. If you’ve shared your own history with her, she should understand why it’s important to start this conversation with your child soon.

It might be helpful to find out why your wife is reacting this way, especially since, as you note, it’s not like her. It might help her to be reminded that this will be an ongoing conversation—the two of you don’t have to tell your kid everything at once. You can start with the coming changes to her body, answer whatever questions she has about that, and take it from there. Many people are unfortunately raised and/or conditioned to feel a sense of shame around these topics—I don’t want to presume anything, but it’s possible that is also a factor for your wife. If so, I hope she’ll consider talking with you and seeking whatever additional support she may need so that she can be part of these important conversations with your daughter.

— Nicole

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This letter writer's wife, if anything, annoyed me even more than the man who would rather spike his wife's career than move cities. The LW is being a very good and thoughtful mother by intending to give her daughter information she'll need ahead of time (as someone who hit puberty early in a repressive environment I want to hug her) and not only is her wife putting unexamined baggage before the child's welfare but she used 'feminism' as a weapon.

I really hope LW's wife asks herself, "why did I do that?" and can come to LW, apologize, and make plans for dealing with whatever is bothering her, which might be quite a large thing --puberty can be horrible, not least for those of us who get blamed for others' inappropriate reactions, and I can beleive that LW's wife has some terrible residuals from her own puberty. However, letting a child deal with that alone and uninformed is at least horrendously negligent. LW's wife needs to get it together.

(I say this not only as someone who went through puberty early and with books my only friend, but as someone in a semi-parental role who has been working on my own puberty issues because that's what the kids need. So I might have a few opinions.)

Same. I don’t usually advocate for going over a spouse’s head, but in this case...

I would have the talk with kiddo and without wife, and deal with the consequences.

I got my period at 10, hair and breasts at 9, and no warning or education other than “here’s a packet of pads!”; “boys only want one thing”; and, when I was distressed with cramps on day 2 of my first period, yelled at for whining.

This little girl deserves better.

As someone who started puberty early as well, do not leave the child to undergo this without foreknowledge.

I started menstruating at age 9. It was An Experience to have, especially since I
started at Girl Scout Summer Camp (thank all good things I had some Reasonable Counselors).

Everything else showed up within a month. Don't wait until 12.

Yeah, uh, 12 is too late. I mean, I didn't get my period until 12, but I got boobs and hair growth starting around 10 and even knowing what was going on, I was heavily resistant to and in denial about the whole process. I cannot imagine my reaction if I hadn't had context.

(Although, tangentially, partial information is not always helpful. I spent a couple years low-key panicking because of a throwaway comment in a 4th grade school "special health lesson" that early menstruation (defined as "before age 12") was correlated with a higher risk of breast cancer. Not a great thing to tell a girl who's going through puberty earlier than most of her classmates, especially without any follow-up!)

I am also baffled by LW's wife's take on sex ed as bad feminism. I am pretty sure that understanding and feeling comfortable in one's body is a basic feminist idea. The only explanations I can think of are that 1) she's somehow conflating sex ed with sexualization of pre-teen girls, or 2) she has some past trauma this subject is unexpectedly digging up.

I wonder if Wife had a bad experience? Or, more to say, a Bad Experience? Sometimes sex positive feminism gets weaponized by shitty people, for example.

In any case, Robie Harris's It's Perfectly Normal is the kind of book that I'd use to attempt to soothe LW's wife, and the current version includes trans kids as well.

But seriously, this is 2021. Your kid has probably already seen tik-toks explaining that, I don't know, periods mean your body is shedding the toxins caused by breathing too much nitrogen, or whatever bizarre shit the internet is saying these days. And she is definitely going to be told she's a slut if she's the first kid in fourth grade with a bra. You have to get their first, with or without your wife's approval.

And she is definitely going to be told she's a slut if she's the first kid in fourth grade with a bra.

Oh god yes. When I was 11/12 there was a kid, Tiffany, in my school with a gland condition - at age 11/12 she was the full height of a 16 year old, and had the very large breasts of a 16 year old. The other kids were VICIOUS, both the girls and the boys. People talked about her as being sexual [she wasn't], called her a slut, etc etc.

She responded by becoming the school's worst bully [both verbal and physical], and because she was so much taller and stronger than the other 11/12 year olds, she had the physical strength to back it up. :(

I was thinking a book like Harris’s would be a good step until wife unwinds herself from whatever issue she’s dealing with. “We’ll just leave this very affirming, non-threatening information around if she wants to read it. If she doesn’t, no harm, no foul.” (Daughter will absolutely want to read it.)

So, my mother started menstruating before anyone had told her anything, and this was long before there were books parents bought for kids. [She was born around 1947 in Australia]

And she literally thought that she was dying/bleeding to death.

So...

More and more girls are starting menstruation between age 9 and age 12[1] - medical research suggests it's partly a high fat and/or high sugar diet; partly hormones in food; and also girls without an involved father start menstruation early[2].

So explaining about menstruation should happen by age 8 or age 9.

[1] Early puberty in girls doubles in a decade
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19288-early-puberty-in-girls-doubles-in-a-decade.html

[2] Father-Daughter Relationship Crucial To When Girls Enter Puberty, Researchers Say
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/09/990927064822.htm

So clearly LW's wife has a Thing. I don't know what that thing is, but it sounds like something she ought to take up with a professional. I hope she can work through whatever it is.

I fear that "it's bad feminism to talk about puberty before age 12" is going to translate to terf bullshit somehow.

Glad I’m not the only one getting major term vibes off the wife.

Explaining what happens during puberty should absolutely be done before puberty starts, not a couple years into it. As someone who also had an early start, I can say from personal experience that waiting until after the fact will only make things more awkward and embarrassing for everyone.

I’m glad I’m not the only one having a, twelve is way too late! reaction.

I don’t have kids, but if I do end up with them I plan to introduce the broad strokes of puberty once they start asking where babies come from (in an age and child appropriate way).

I must admit to being completely bemused by 'finding a day to sit down and talk about this' as if it isn't one of many conversations that has been happening naturally already, in multiple different forms. Pretty sure that we were already talking about this kind of thing with the kids before Youngest started school, just as conversations that happened in the car. Now, fair, that might be because Eldest brought some of the conversation home from health ed, but I can also remember having a rather detailed conversation with Eldest about pregnancy and conception when they would have been 2 1/2, and Middlest was due to be born. Kids ask the damnedest questions, all I ever needed to do was answer them!

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