ashbet: (Default)
ashbet ([personal profile] ashbet) wrote in [community profile] agonyaunt2021-01-03 07:30 pm

The terrible advice in this one made me MAD >:(

https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/01/should-i-get-vasectomy-care-and-feeding.html

"I’m Thinking About Getting a Vasectomy Against My Wife’s Wishes"

Dear Care and Feeding,

I am the proud father of two awesome kids and I’m married to a great woman who is a wonderful mother. I am a lucky man; I know it. We’re a happy family. My issue (and I’m thankful it’s not something too serious) is that, while I love my children, I know to my very core that I don’t want any more. My wife doesn’t have the same clarity. I’m not sure if she actually wants a third, but I’ve brought up scheduling a vasectomy multiple times, and she won’t let me do it! She says it’s too final, that she’s not ready to “close that door.” But I kind of feel like the fact that I am definitely ready to close that door means it just needs to be closed, regardless of whether she wants that or not. But I see as I type it that that seems awful. Is it?

—Fertile in Fort Collins


Dear Fertile,

It’s kind of awful, yeah.

I’m not suggesting that you should have more children if you definitely don’t want to. I’m saying that if you mean to stay married to this great woman and continue to be a part of this happy family of four, it’s not your place to make the unilateral decision to close that door forever, because that’s not the way a healthy partnership with another human being works. If you and your wife ever get to the point where she feels certain she does want another child and you continue to be certain you don’t, that’s a different kind of discussion—and yes, that might be a marriage-ending one (at which point you would be free to do whatever the hell you want with your reproductive capacity). But at this point, if your wife isn’t ready to totally commit to two-and-done, you don’t get to pull the plug if she has already asked you not to.

I’ll add that she may be unready for that for reasons having nothing much to do with thinking she might want a third child. (I can tell you that I knew for sure I didn’t want a second, but even so, when I reached menopause, I cried just because the possibility was gone forever. It was not a rational reaction. But not every human reaction is.) It’s possible, too, that she’s thinking about how if something happened to the children you have, she’d want to have options. (I know this sounds morbid—and it may be this is why she isn’t spelling that out for you. Another morbid thought: Maybe she’s thinking that if something happened to her, she’d want you to have options with someone else.) Whatever it is that’s keeping her from going along with your plan, trust it. Be patient. Be supportive. And double down on birth control.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2021-01-04 02:14 am (UTC)(link)
Yep.

Also, Care and Feeding, you're out of your lane.
minoanmiss: Nubian girl with dubious facial expression (dubious Nubian girl)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2021-01-04 02:45 am (UTC)(link)
WHAT YOU SAID WHAT YOU SAID OMG I HAVE FLAAAAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FAAAAAACE FROM READING THAT MALARKEY
jadelennox: Senora Sabasa Garcia, by Goya (Default)

[personal profile] jadelennox 2021-01-04 05:27 am (UTC)(link)
christ on a canolli so many flames. SO MANY.

Dear Care and Feeding. Imagine that the LW is female, and it's her husband who wants more kids while she wants a tubal. Now imagine telling her that it's awful to get a tubal because a man might want to impregnate her against her will. Now check all of your pamphlets that talk -- accurately -- about how getting kids out of people they don't want is an incredibly common form of domestic abuse. THEN SIT THE HELL DOWN AND SHUT THE HELL UP.
ysobel: A man wielding a kitchen knife and making an adorable yelling face (rage)

[personal profile] ysobel 2021-01-06 01:56 am (UTC)(link)
SO MANY FLAMES

MANY FLAME. VERY NO.
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)

[personal profile] rosefox 2021-01-04 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

YOUR BODY YOUR CHOICE

If your wife wants more kids, that's up to her, but she doesn't get non-consensual access to your sperm for them. Go get that snip.
onlysmallwings: a white cup of black tea with a slice of lemon floating in it (Default)

[personal profile] onlysmallwings 2021-01-04 02:52 am (UTC)(link)
WTF. WTF.

His body, his choice. Evey time.
mommy: Wanda Maximoff; Scarlet Witch (Default)

[personal profile] mommy 2021-01-04 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
Reproductive freedom includes being able to decide whether or not you want to be fertile. LW is happy with the number of kids they have and isn't interested in making any more. No one gets to override this choice. If LW wants a vasectomy, then LW has every right to get a vasectomy.

What gets me is that most advice columnists would be neutral to supportive of someone who wanted a tubal ligation. I can't understand why anyone would deny this LW the same level of support.
topaz_eyes: (alarm clock)

[personal profile] topaz_eyes 2021-01-04 03:49 am (UTC)(link)
I am not arguing LW's right to bodily autonomy. A vasectomy isn't even a one-way ticket; it can be reversed successfully in most cases if LW wants to. I'm wondering if something more is going on with LW's wife to explain why she's so adamant against a vasectomy. They need to discuss it because otherwise this will generate resentment whether or not LW goes ahead.
minoanmiss: A detail of the Ladies in Blue fresco (Default)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2021-01-04 04:44 am (UTC)(link)
THIS is the advice LW needed. You should get whatever C&F got paid for their non-answer.
falkner: [Ensemble Stars] [Kanzaki Souma] (BLEACH ☆ hell butterfly)

[personal profile] falkner 2021-01-04 01:45 pm (UTC)(link)
This is exactly what I was thinking, that the focus here should have been the LW's wife's aversion to the vasectomy (and indirectly to the LW's body autonomy), with advice on how to better approach the topic and have a clearer discussion.

The actual answer LW got is plain garbage.
Edited 2021-01-04 13:45 (UTC)
shirou: (cloud)

[personal profile] shirou 2021-01-04 03:51 am (UTC)(link)
Holy hell. I keep thinking surely Michelle, the columnist, said LW should talk more to his wife and try to understand her viewpoint before making the decision. So I go back and read the response again, and... that’s not what she said. She really said the decision isn’t—or shouldn’t be—his. Damn.
green_grrl: (Default)

[personal profile] green_grrl 2021-01-04 04:23 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah. I think she was trying to get at: him going off unilaterally and doing this when he knows his wife isn’t ready would be a bomb toss in their relationship. Fair enough. But how about, as you said, really digging into what wife’s actual feelings are rather than just all these speculations. Couples therapy? Some kind of active measures. I mean, this guy is desperate and the answer was just ... wait and make up reasons to be empathetic. Ugh.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2021-01-04 04:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, this.

Something more like:

You get to take control over your fertility and decide you don't want to participate in creating another pregnancy, and take steps to make that happen, if you want.

But it sounds like you *want* your wife on board, or at least like you don't want the conflict that would come from going ahead without her on your side, and the only way to try to get her on board is to keep trying to get her on board. Talk to a family doctor or a local clinic that does vasectomies about resources, information (including reversal options and whether they require a partner's consent), and a referral. Bring the information to another conversation with your wife. Put aside time for the conversation, and let her know you want to have a serious talk about it. Tell her you love your family the way it is and you want a vasectomy, and ask her what she means when she says this feels like closing a door for your family. And listen to her answer. And then see where you're at.

And, think about what it would feel like to treat is as, you want a vasectomy, and you are going to get one, and you would like her support in that, and what would she need to be able to give you that support? Is there a point at which you would want to go ahead regardless of her support? What would feel like you had done your best to follow your values around this (which sound like they perhaps involve acknowledging your wife's feelings and communicating openly?) before going ahead, regardless of whether she agrees?
Edited 2021-01-04 16:14 (UTC)
topaz_eyes: (snowdrops)

[personal profile] topaz_eyes 2021-01-04 04:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes to all of this. I suspect that "closing that door" may not necessarily refer to having more children, however. The only way to find out is to have that discussion.
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2021-01-04 09:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Me too, I have some theories. Do you have theories?
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2021-01-04 11:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Wild soap opera/advice column drama theory: wife is having an affair or multiple and wants to maintain plausible deniability if she gets pregnant extracurricularly.

Actual theory based on the text: the vasectomy makes being done with having kids or out of the family-building stage feel real in a way that brings up some feelings about life stages and ageing that she isn't prepared for. TL;DR: it makes her feel old.

Alternative theories: pregnancy risk kink; ideas about fertility tied up with ideas about sexual attractiveness in ways that hit insecurity buttons; founded or unfounded worries that removing the possibility of an accidental pregnancy would make LW more likely to cheat...
likeaduck: Cristina from Grey's Anatomy runs towards the hospital as dawn breaks, carrying her motorcycle helmet. (Default)

[personal profile] likeaduck 2021-01-05 06:30 am (UTC)(link)
Me too! And the upside of that one is that if they can get to the point where they're talking about it and recognising what's going on they can potentially take care of those feelings and move forward.
topaz_eyes: (Tom Roberts moon)

[personal profile] topaz_eyes 2021-01-05 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
My theories agree with your theories pretty much.
sara: S (Default)

[personal profile] sara 2021-01-04 03:58 am (UTC)(link)
WTF. No, the columnist's response isn't remotely ok. If he wants to be done having kids, that's his decision.
lemonsharks: (Default)

[personal profile] lemonsharks 2021-01-04 05:10 pm (UTC)(link)
My god this advice is horrifying. EVERYONE gets to make the unilateral decision of "I am not going to have (more) children."
movingfinger: (Default)

[personal profile] movingfinger 2021-01-04 06:55 pm (UTC)(link)
This is terrible, horrible advice.
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)

[personal profile] azurelunatic 2021-01-04 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
... isn't part of the standard procedure for getting a vasectomy the discussion of sperm banking??

Vasect away, friend. This seems like one of the fertility-related medical procedures that is a one-party-consent situation.